Shoud Atheists Abandon Santa Claus

Much to the chagrin of the very religious, the Christmas holiday has been a secular holiday for a long time now, at least in the United States. It is the greediest and most commercialized of all our holidays. To rid yourself of any doubt just look at all the people who leave their families Thanksgiving night to camp outside Wal-mart and Best Buy to fight strangers for cheap products. Half of the time these purchases aren't even for gifts but for themselves, ... and the Christmas season has begun. Mind you, I don't have a problem with that until that person claims that atheists are the ones "taking Christ out of Christmas". Don't blame us, ask any of their 6 year olds what Christmas is about, they'll tell you gifts and Santa Claus.

Perhaps the Santa Claus and God myths aren't all that different and perhaps there is a reason for that. Let's look at some similarities.
                                         God                                                           Santa
Bearded male figure above you in the sky   /// Bearded male figure above you far up north
All seeing and judges your actions               ///  Knows if you've been bad or good" and judges
Rewards you with heaven punishes with hell  ///  Rewards you with gifts punishes with coal (fire)
Angels                                                         ///Elves
Priests to represent him                                ///Mall Santas- we tell kids they're Santa's Helpers

One reason Santa is introduced to children is to ingrain the idea of an "unseen watcher", someone that is always watching and judging their actions. It introduces it in a fun way with minimal possibility for punishment. Worst case scenario he brings you nothing but coal, so it's not even a scary downside. Also this never happens, so the children get used to the idea of only receiving the reward. Think about it, how many christians do you know that think they are going to hell. So by the time Sunday school starts they have already accepted this as a reasonable concept. But this new lesson is repeated every week instead of just several weeks each year. Maybe there isn't as much separation between the religion and Santa after all.

The connection between Santa and religion isn't my reason for reconsidering whether or not it is a good idea, it's a matter of truth. As a child you are repeatedly told how important it is to be honest and not tell a lie. You are also taught that you can trust your family. I admittedly was one of those children that felt they had been lied to when I figured it out. I was surprised that this big lie had been told to me by my entire family. I was reminded of this while listening to an episode of This American Life (minutes 6:15-27:15) about a family who has a very elaborate Christmas tradition that included hiring people to play Santa-like characters as part of the ruse. It is definitely a lie, we even talk about finally telling them the truth, but is it a harmful lie? Certainly most people agree that there are some times where it is acceptable to tell a lie. Usually it is when the harm of telling the truth would be greater than the harm of the lie. I don't know that the Santa story meets this requirement.

The Santa issue can also be a bit of a class warfare issue. Kids from poor families who may only receive 1 item from the Toys for Tots  may wonder why Santa only gives them one gift while a classmate gets videos games, iPads, and phones. I imagine families that have monetary issues have ways of limiting expectations for those children.

So, should atheists abandon Santa Claus in favor of truth? I don't know. Watching the kids open gifts at Christmas time is fun, but I think their excitement may just be the gifts. On the other hand maybe the buildup of waiting for the big day is why the kids get so excited. I'm not sure if it's just a harmless tradition that doesn't matter or if it's an unnecessary lie at a time when you're trying to teach your kids the importance of honesty. Let me know how you feel about it, or if you have any other arguments for or against the use of Santa.



p.s. I would highly recommend listening to the This American Life episode, it's very interesting. I couldn't get just that section to link but the main story I would like you to hear is from 6:15 to 27:15

Back from Hiatus

     Well since you are reading this it means the world didn't come to an end Friday. Which is good, because that means I would have typed this for nothing. It also means I am starting round 2 of the blog experiment. This time it will be a little more structured, a post will come out weekly, Saturday night at midnight. I am going to use it a little differently this time. I plan to share more links to news stories I come across and hope to have more humorous items as well. Also, the weeks that we have a meetup I will recap some of what we talked about and any reccomendations people made about books, movies, etc. 

     I encourage you to comment on the posts (so I know people are reading them) and also send me information that you think others would be interested in. There is a button on the right side of the page to subscribe, so click on that and you'll have the new post in your inbox when you wake up every Sunday morning.



Relaunching Social Media

With the new year coming up and the second year of the Metro East Atheist Network coming to an end I am going to try and get the blog going again. Most likely it will be a weekly post, in addition to news stories regarding atheism that have come to me during the week I will also recap some of the topics that came up during our meetings. Frequently during the meetings we discuss and recommend books or movies for each other and I will share them here for those who did not attend. 

In addition to posting on the blog again, I will be posting to the Facebook and Twitter starting on the 1st. Please offer any feedback you have. I will reassess at the end of March and if there isn't any interest in the Facebook or blog then we'll just stick to meetings and go from there. If you are interested I encourage you to comment and also click on the subscribe button on the right of the main page.

Thanks for your patience and support.

Out of Town- Quick update

Hey everybody sorry I haven't posted much as of late. My workplace has recently made it harder to access the blog and other reference information. That along with working on a committee to roll out a new program and plan for yesterdays meeting and prep for a race that will have me out of town for a week has made time tight. I will try to get one more post up before the 31st and then there probably won't be anything until the 6th or 7th.



I always appreciate comments on the blogs and the more comments I see the more I will try and get out there. Even if you don't have anything to say just leave a note that says "read it", that way I have a better idea of how many eyes I'm getting on this. If there are topics you would like me to cover, either email me or leave a comment on this post with the topic you would like to see. Thanks for everyone's support.

Don't forget you can follow us on Twitter and Facebook

Rep. Valarie Hodges OK with Govt. Money going to Christian Schools but not Muslim

Louisiana state representattive (R)Valarie Hodges voted to approve governor Bobby Jindall's overhaul of the state education program. Hodges was fine with the voucher program when she believed that parents could send their kids to public school or a school that would be "teaching the fundamentals of America’s Founding Fathers’ religion, which is Christianity". Hodges narrow-minded thinking kept her from realizing that religious schools would include religions other than her own and now she isn't happy.



She also stated that "I do not support using public funds for teaching Islam anywhere here in Louisiana.”  I  have to say that I agree with her, but let's not stop with Islam, let's not use public funds to teach any religious schools. Public funds should be for public schools, we shouldn't be handing any taxpayer money over to churches.

As Hemant Mehta the Friendly Atheist said -
"Rep. Hodges made the mistake of saying out loud what most conservative Christians only say to themselves in private: When they say they want “religious freedom,” they’re only referring to their own faith. Everyone else can fend for themselves.
Message to Rep. Hodges: Your Christian privilege is showing."

Now someone just needs to start a School of the Flying Spaghetti Monster in Louisiana.

What do you think?
Are you OK with vouchers going to private schools? What if they aren't affiliated with a religion?

The Friendly Atheist, and reference

Irreducible Complexity, Eye Don't Think So?

Debate enough theists and the irreducible complexity argument will undoubtedly arise. The irreducible complexity argument, as defined by Michael Behe who coined the term goes as follows.

A single system which is composed of several interacting parts that contribute to the basic function, and where the removal of any one of the parts causes the system to effectively cease functioning 

Those who aren't familiar with the evolution of the eye often cite it as an example. I find this to be a weak example of intelligent design anyway, given the fact that our eye is subject to so many flaws. Cataracts, glaucoma, color blindness, near/far-sightedness, how are our eyes held up as an example of the best design by anyone? Below is a chart of the evolution of the eye, from a patch of photoreceptor cells to our eye.

Of course there are variations in these eyes as well and that's the interesting part I wanted to share with you today. We see more colors than our dogs because instead of 2 types of color photoreceptor we have 3. That one extra type of receptor allows us to perceive a much wider range of colors. Now while that may lead to arguments as to what color to paint the kitchen, it lets us enjoy all the colors we see in the rainbow. But, while our 3 types of receptors are great, most butterflies actually have 5 types of receptors, allowing them to see ultraviolet and infrared light.



So our eye is in some ways "less complete" or has one less part, but it does not cease to function, it just functions differently. When it comes to number of receptors though, the butterfly is not the king. That honor goes to the Mantis Shrimp.



The mantis shrimp has 16 different types of receptors and can see in ways that would be difficult to imagine. Radiolab has an episode all about color and there is a segment that discusses the rainbow and particularly how differently dogs, human, butterflies, and mantis shrimp would see it. You can listen to it here and if you want to get right to the rainbow section skip to about 9:40. It's about 10 minutes long from there, but well worth the listen.

What do you think?

Would you want more receptors or the ability to see ultraviolet or infrared?



Oreos Attack Marriage?

I am very unlikely to eat an Oreo cookie again. On June 25 Kraft the maker of Oreos posted on their Facebook page this picture (June 25 being Pride day)

Now many evangelical christians, the group called Minnesota for Marriage for example, is calling for a boycott of Kraft's products. Now this is where we differ, I am unlikely to eat another Oreo because I think there are about 50 other cookies that are far superior and wouldn't waste my time with an Oreo. These folks however feel that because of one picture, they need to rally the troops and wage a war against Kraft. I went to Oreo's Facebook page and it seems that they post a theme or a picture for each day, here is July 2 for example.


So I am sure that all the detractors are doing is drumming up business for Oreos, which was probably Kraft's plan the whole time. By the way, a quick trip to Kraft's website shows how many different brands that they own/distribute, good luck boycotting all of them. Here are all the brands that fall under the Kraft family. I used the Wikipedia page because on Kraft's site they are broken down a-z with a link to click for each letter, not user friendly. Now if they actually make the sextuple stuff Oreo then I'll give it a try but until then the tagalong is at the top of my cookie list.
Now that's a cookie worth fighting over.

So, This is the Tolerance You Speak of?

The apologists tell me "What's the harm in believing, even if it isn't true, the church teaches morality to the children." The problem with this is that along with the good lessons, which can and should be taught by the family, there are messages of hate and bigotry that are taught as well. Yes, hate can be spread in the home and by those who are bigots it probably will be. However, the majority of people who would never teach these things in their home bring their children to church to listen to the teachings of an "authority figure" that the parents at least appear to look up to and respect. The children do not know that they need to filter out certain messages, they are being told that god is perfect and the pastor is there to teach them, so they will take it all at face value.

I know this is a long intro into a relatively short video but I hope that this video disgusts you as much as it did me. People need to realize that when an institution teaches hate that they are negatively impacting society as a whole. So, here is a video of a young child in the Apostolic Truth Tabernacle in Indiana.

In case you had trouble hearing it he was taught to sing

"The Bible's right, somebody's wrong.

I know the Bible's right, somebody's wrong.
Romans one, twenty six and twenty seven;
Ain't no homos gonna make it to Heaven."

This is clearly indoctrination, this little boy certainly didn't choose this to sing to everyone. He is being taught hate(or at least bigotry) and doesn't even realize it and the reaction from the congregation is reinforcing that what he is singing is right. If we think for just a second about what the message is here, he is singing about a group of people NOT going to heaven and they are cheering and whistling like crazy. So apparently they are happy that they are going to hell, is this really the christian message?

Children learn by repetition, how many time did he probably practice this leading up to this day, probably dozens and each time with reinforcement. And with a reaction like that, I'm sure other kids in the congregation were singing it after church. They know that to get ideas to stick you make them catchy and teach them early, just like jingles. Worked for school house rock.

You may still be doubtful that the message is getting through to this or other young children, but consider this. The fourteen year old who is brought to church with the family, that knows that they are gay but can't share it yet, clearly gets the message. They get the message, probably at school, possibly at home, and certainly at church. The message that they aren't welcome and that they are sinners and "ain't gonna make it to heaven." So,apologists, this is the tolerance and positive influence that churches perpetuate? Well lessons like this I think we can do without.

IL Taxpayers Fund $20,000 of Cross Repair, Court Allows it

Illinois issued a grant of $20,000 to help repair the 111 foot Bald Knob Cross of Peace in Alto Pass, IL. Robert Sherman sued the state claiming that the state violated the first amendment and requested that the money be paid back. The 7th circuit court ruled that there was no "legislative intent" to fund the cross, as it was part of a 5 million dollar appropriation to fund pork barrel projects.

So it appears that legislators can take your tax dollars and give it to churches, who don't pay taxes, so long as they don't specify what the money will be spent on when they approve it. This appears to be a terrible loophole in the law, allowing them to fund clearly unconstitutional projects without any restrictions. Based on this ruling there would be nothing to stop a legislator from getting pork barrel money approved and then giving it to a church in their district to expand or rehab a church.

This is a case of legislators buying votes in their district with our money. This money was secured by Democratic Illinois State Senator Gary Forby.
Benton Office (In-District)

903 West Washington,

Suite 5

Benton, IL 62812

 P. 618.439.2504

Springfield Office (State Capitol)

 537 Capitol Building

Springfield, IL 62706

   P. 217.782.5509

At a time where the state can't balance the budget and they are raising income tax on Illinois workers, perhaps they should not be handing money out to churches who don't pay any taxes.

Do you think that legislators should be allowed to grant pork barrel money at their own discretion?

Pastor Calls for Government to Kill Homosexuals

Well I know I am about a week behind on this story but after hearing about it several times this week I wanted to mention it and make sure it got passed on. Pastor Curtis Knapp from Seneca Kansas was preaching against homosexuality to his congregation and suggested that the government should "go out and start killing them." Then he almost seemed disgusted that of course "they won't but they should."  You can listen to the audio here.

This is a great example of how some christians would like to use government to force their viewpoints on all of society. Granted most would not go to this extreme, but they would and have used government to force prayer into schools, ban atheists from holding office in some states, and teach creationism. History has shown what happens when you use the government to force religious ideologies onto the citizens. Many christians who are quick to point out that this is a "christian nation" forget that what drove many to come here was to escape religious persecution.  

Apologists often say that religion isn't bad and reinforces good qualities such as charity and forgiveness. But anything good that a religion teaches can be taught in society and by families in a secular setting. However, this type of teaching needs religion to justify it. Without the backing of his "good book" this teaching would have not been tolerated. The fact that his congregation did not get up and walk out when he called for the government to exterminate a group of American citizens just shows that it is a setting which will tolerate that behavior.

The bible also calls for adulterers(Leviticus 20:10), disobedient children (Exodus 21:17), and those who are wizards ( Leviticus 20:27, seriously it's in there) all to be put to death. Would pastor Knapp also like the government to enforce these rules as well. I think Knapp should stick to the love thy neighbor, love the sinner hate the sin messages and  I will refrain from casting any of my wizardly spells on him.  - {No religion, Know peace}

Atheist arrested

Well we may not be in the most atheist-friendly country in the world. I'm often reminded of that as my coworkers go on their "This is a Christian nation" speeches. But at least we have the first amendment to protect our right to disagree. Your coworkers and family can tell you that you are wrong and that you're going to hell, but at least they can't lock you up.

In Indonesia their citizens have freedom of religion but not freedom from religion. As long as they choose to follow Catholicism, Protestantism, Islam, Buddhism, Confucianism, or Hinduism then they are fine. I have heard   some people say that "this is a christian nation, and if you don't like it get out" and "the constitution says freedom of religion, not freedom from religion" and I wonder if this is the type of society that they hope for.

So, while we still have quite a way to go to reach a point where religion doesn't dominate politics and everything else, at least we live in a country in which we have the freedom to disagree. 

http://www.examiner.com/article/atheist-arrested-sent-to-jail-for-posting-god-doesn-t-exist-on-facebook

The Church Endorsed Same-sex Marriages

Next time you are having a conversation with someone and they insist that same-sex unions are against church teachings, just point them toward this article. John Boswell wrote a book about the history of same-sex marriages and how the church has actually sanctioned these marriages for centuries.

http://anthropologist.livejournal.com/1314574.html

a slightly more lengthy article with addditional info

Would you sell your soul?

Interesting story on this weeks Freakonomics podcast that I thought I would share with you guys. It's about a guy who put out an offer to purchase someone's soul. He made offers ranging from $1-$50 to atheists that he spoke with online. He claimed that none of those who he made the offer to would take him up on it. He finally found an atheist who did and they interview them both and discuss whether or not a soul is something you can sell or should be able to. They also look at it from an economists point of view.

So the questions I pose to my fellow Meanies and other readers are,
1) Do you believe in a soul?
2) would you be willing to sell yours, even if you don't believe in it?
3) If you don't believe, would there be anything wrong with selling your soul multiple times?

Let me know what you think, I'm interested.

Link to the podcast down below.



http://www.freakonomics.com/2012/05/07/soul-possession-a-new-freakonomics-radio-podcast/

Enjoy THIS Life

The weather broke early this year, which is part of my excuse for not having posted anything in several weeks. With that warm weather came yard projects, covering vacation at work, and participating in my primary hobby, kayaking. It's a time consuming hobby because of the preparation prior to going, driving somewhere, spending hours on the water, then traveling back and cleaning up all my river funky stuff. One of my recent outings was a 25 mile paddle on the Verdigris River in Oklahoma, a very slow river, which gave me plenty of time to enjoy my surroundings.

You may be wondering, "what does kayaking have to do with atheism?" Well, as I embark on another trip this weekend from Jefferson City, MO to just south of Hartford, IL I will spend many hours immersed in nature. When you spend that much time on a river you see a lot of nature and the countryside that most people hardly ever see or have time to notice. Travelling under your own power also gives you a lot more time to watch your surroundings, not to mention my head won't even come up as high as the handrail on most of the boats we'll pass.

 In the 4.5 Billion years since the earth has formed this planet has been a hostile place for humans. Earth has only had a breathable atmosphere for about 500 million years. Knowing the real origin of the universe and our planet and the tiny chance that I am even here to witness everything around me, makes my surroundings even more beautiful. I have startled a beaver that was gnawing on a tree, a fox taking a drink of water, and unfortunately many Asian carp as well. (look them up on youtube and you'll understand) I can appreciate the beauty of nature without needing to feel that it was created just for us. Not only that but, every time I see something new, it makes me realize how little of our surroundings that we truly experience. Whether it is driving to work or paddling the Missouri River there are literally millions of lifeforms around me going about their lives. From bacteria, to insects, to all of the animals going about their business.

If I were gone tomorrow the world would go on as if I had never been here. I appreciate how precious our short time is here, we get just one chance to experience the world around us. So, Sunday morning I will be finishing a 24+ hour paddle and truly experiencing life instead of sitting in a building wasting my life worrying about an afterlife that doesn't exist. So remember to get out there and explore our world, visit a museum or a park, or just take a slow walk around your neighborhood and look closely and notice something you've never seen before.

George Carlin's 10(ish) Commandments

George Carlin On The Ten Commandments

I have a problem with the Ten Commandments. Here it is: Why are there ten? We don't need that many. I think the list of commandments was deliberately and artificially inflated to get it up to ten. It's clearly a padded list.

Here's how it happened: About five thousand years ago, a bunch of reli­gious and political hustlers got together to figure out how they could control people and keep them in line. They knew people were basically stupid and would believe anything they were told, so these guys announced that God— God personally—had given one of them a list of Ten Commandments that he wanted everyone to follow. They claimed the whole thing took place on a mountaintop, when no one else was around.

But let me ask you something: When these guys were sittin' around the tent makin' all this up, why did they pick ten? Why ten? Why not nine, or eleven? I'll tell you why. Because ten sounds important. Ten sounds official. They knew if they tried eleven, people wouldn't take them seriously. People would say, "What're you kiddin' me? The Eleven Commandments? Get the fuck outta here!"

But ten! Ten sounds important. Ten is the basis for the decimal system; it's a decade. It's a psychologically satisfying number: the top ten; the ten most wanted; the ten best-dressed. So deciding on Ten Commandments was clearly a marketing decision. And it's obviously a bullshit list. In truth, it's a politic; document, artificially inflated to sell better.

I'm going to show you how you can reduce the number of commandments and come up with a list that's a bit more logical and realistic. We'll start with the first three, and I'll use the Roman Catholic version because those are the ones I was fed as a little boy.

• I AM THE LORD THY GOD, THOU SHALT NOT HAVE STRANGE
GODS BEFORE ME.

• THOU SHALT NOT TAKE THE NAME OF THE LORD THY GOD IN
VAIN.

• THOU SHALT KEEP HOLY THE SABBATH.

Okay, right off the bat, the first three commandments—pure bullshit "Sabbath day," "Lord's name," "strange gods." Spooky language. Spooky language designed to scare and control primitive people. In no way does superstitious mumbo jumbo like this apply to the lives of intelligent, civilized human in the twenty-first century. You throw out the first three commandments, am you're down to seven.

•HONOR THY FATHER AND MOTHER.

This commandment is about obedience and respect for authority; in other words it's simply a device for controlling people. The truth is, obedience and respect should not be granted automatically. They should be earned. They should be based on the parents' (or the authority figure's) performance. Some parents deserve respect. Most of them don't. Period. We're down to six.

Now, in the interest of logic—something religion has a really hard time with—I'm going to skip around the list a little bit:

• THOU SHALT NOT STEAL.

• THOU SHALT NOT BEAR FALSE WITNESS.

Stealing and lying. Actually, when you think about it, these two com­mandments cover the same sort of behavior: dishonesty. Stealing and lying. So we don't need two of them. Instead, we combine these two and call it "Thou shalt not be dishonest." Suddenly we're down to five.

And as long as we're combining commandments I have two others that be­long together:

• THOU SHALT NOT COMMIT ADULTERY.

• THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S WIFE.

Once again, these two prohibit the same sort of behavior; in this case, mar­ital infidelity. The difference between them is that coveting takes place in the mind. And I don't think you should outlaw fantasizing about someone else's wife, otherwise what's a guy gonna think about when he's flogging his dong?

But marital fidelity is a good idea, so I suggest we keep the idea and call this commandment "Thou shalt not be unfaithful." Suddenly we're down to four.

And when you think about it further, honesty and fidelity are actually parts of the same overall value. So, in truth, we could combine the two honesty commandments with the two fidelity commandments, and, using positive lan­guage instead of negative, call the whole thing "Thou shalt always be honest and faithful." And now we're down to three.

•THOU SHALT NOT COVET THY NEIGHBOR'S GOODS.

This one is just plain stupid. Coveting your neighbor's goods is what keeps the economy going: Your neighbor gets a vibrator that plays "O Come All Ye Faithful," you want to get one, too. Coveting creates jobs. Leave it alone.

You throw out coveting and you're down to two now: the big, combined honesty/fidelity commandment, and the one we haven't mentioned yet:

•THOU SHALT NOT KILL.

Murder. The Fifth Commandment. But, if you give it a little thought, you realize that religion has never really had a problem with murder. Not really. More people have been killed in the name of God than for any other reason.

To cite a few examples, just think about Irish history, the Middle East, the Crusades, the Inquisition, our own abortion-doctor killings and, yes, the World Trade Center to see how seriously religious people take Thou Shalt Not Kill. Apparently, to religious folks—especially the truly devout—murder is ne­gotiable. It just depends on who's doing the killing and who's getting killed.

And so, with all of this in mind, folks, I offer you my revised list of the Two Commandments:

First:

•THOU SHALT ALWAYS BE HONEST AND FAITHFUL, ESPECIALLYTO THE PROVIDER OF THY NOOKIE.

And second:

•THOU SHALT TRY REAL HARD NOT TO KILL ANYONE, UNLESS,
OF COURSE, THEY PRAY TO A DIFFERENT INVISIBLE AVENGER
THAN THE ONE YOU PRAY TO.

Two is all you need, folks. Moses could have carried them down the hill in his pocket. And if we had a list like that, I wouldn't mind that brilliant judge in Alabama displaying it prominently in his courthouse lobby. As long he in­cluded one additional commandment:

•THOU SHALT KEEP THY RELIGION TO THYSELF!!!

From George Carlin – When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops (2004)

Lonnie's Questions 11-20

11)If the Bible is not true, why is it so universally regarded as "the Good Book"?  It's only considered that by those who buy into the fictional story that it portrays. not "universally"

12)Did you know that the Bible has been the number one bestseller almost every single year since the 1436 invention of the Gutenberg printing press? I have heard that but...It is not on the NY Times best seller list for any of the last 15 years. Because there are many variations of religious books  it is nearly impossible to find reliable sales figures for them. Print figures are missing or unreliable since these books are produced by many different and unrelated publishers. Furthermore, many copies of the Bible, the Qur'an and the Bhagavad Gita are printed and given away free, instead of being sold 

13)If God does not exist, then from where comes humanity's universal moral sense? Society crafts its morals based on what is acceptable at the time, as we realize treating women and other races as property is wrong we modify our laws and our morals as well. A society based on the moral standards in the bible would be a society we in America would not recognize or condone. 

14)If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world? The same thing that causes any social animal to "care" it is mutually beneficial for me to act in a way that is good for me and my society. 

15)Can you explain how personality could have ever evolved from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos? Personality is a result of many interactions with others and is modified over time based on those interactions. 

16)If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have been willing to face death for what they knew to be a lie? 2 of many possible answers 1) perhaps they were also duped 2) maybe they weren't that intelligent

 

17)How do you explain the fact that a single, relatively uneducated and virtually untraveled man, dead at age 33, radically changed lives and society to this day? Sounds to me like he was well traveled for the day,  Steve Jobs founded Apple aged 21, Richard Branson founded the Virgin Group aged 20, Mark Zuckerberg set up Facebook aged 20, talk about radically changing the world at a young age. Alexander the Great became king at 20. But I don't consider any of them to be gods either.

18)Why have so many of history's greatest thinkers been believers? The threat of being killed for being a heretic. That's why "history's greatest thinkers" were. Today's greatest are not, take that threat away and they are free to express their opinion and follow the evidence.
 
19)Have you ever wondered why thousands of intelligent scientists, living and dead, have been men and women of great faith? Public pressure and others choose to ignore the evidence(lack of) because they are comfortable not questioning something they grew up with. 

20)If time never had a beginning, but rather goes backwards infinitely or has gone through an infinite number of cycles, then how is it possible that we are here today? Because if we weren't, you wouldn't have been able to copy and paste this question onto my facebook. That's like me asking why am I here now and not born 50 years ago or 50 years from now. Me being here only proves that I am here and nothing supernatural.

Answering Lonnie's questions 4-10

4)How do you explain David's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death by crucifixion (Psalm 22) 1000 years before Christ lived?
Well to start, psalms is not considered a book of prophesy but a book of poetry.This is shown by its placement in both the Bible and the Torah, where it is placed with other poetic works. Also it is preceded with a note that says,To the Chief Musician. Set to “The Deer of the Dawn.” indicating it's poetic nature. Yes it was (supposedly) written by David who was himself persecuted by Saul, making it much more likely that when it was written, it was written about events that were contemporary to David. Apologists refer to "they pierced my hands and feet" as being the proof that this refers to the crucifixion. They ignore much of the rest of the passage which refers to "the bulls of Bashan" and "Save Me from the lion’s mouth and from the horns of the wild oxen". During which part of his crucifixion was he being attacked by wild oxen? This sounds more like the pleadings of someone who had to fight off oxen and lions in the coliseum than a crucifixion. 
 
5)How do you explain that the prophet Daniel prophesied the exact YEAR when the Christ would be presented as Messiah and also prophesied that the temple would be destroyed afterwards over 500 years in advance (Daniel 9:24-27)?
Many people believe that this refers to the Antichrist and the end times. In regards to predicting the year, that's only with convenient math. It requires that when it says week you assume year and then multiply that by 7. Daniel 9:24 says "70 weeks", but we are supposed to consider this 490 years. With this kind of math it doesn't matter when it happened you would just change the multiplier to make the prophecy fit the event. Unconvincing.

6)How could any mere human pinpoint the precise birth town of the Messiah seven full centuries before the fact, as did the prophet Micah?
Micah 5:2 which is usuall quoted as "pinpointing the birthplace" of Jesus only claims that "one who is to be a ruler in Israel on my behalf will come out from you" referring to Bethlehem.  So in short, he didn't.
 
7)How do you account for the odds (1 in 10 to the 157th power) that even just 48 (of 300) Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
Selective interpretation. 

8)How was it possible for the Old Testament prophet Isaiah to have predicted the virgin birth of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14) 700 years before it occurred?
Because the myth of the virgin birth has been used in many mythologies, and would have been familiar to many people at the time. Jesus was certainly not the first "virgin birth" 
 
9)How can anyone doubt the reliability of Scripture considering the number and the proximity to the originals of its many copied manuscripts?
There are millions of copies of Jurassic Park out there, all identical to the original, but I don't think there is an island of dinosaurs any more than I think Jesus was the son of an imaginary god that created everything. Actually I think there is a better chance that there could be a dinosaur island.

10)In what sense was Jesus a "good man" if He was lying in His claim to be God?

I know plenty of good people, and if they suddenly were delusional and thought they were god they would probably still be good people. You are assuming  1)I think he was a good person and 2)if he was lying about that one thing, couldn't be a good person.

New Billboards in New York

American Atheists is putting up 2 new billboards in New York city. They will be going up on Monday, one on Broadway and one in Brooklyn.

The bottom one will be in Brooklyn and targeting the Jewish community. A recent Gallup poll found that 53% of Jews identify as nonreligious, there's a good chance that some of them are actually atheist but that it's just tough to be open about.

The top one will be on Broadway in a Muslim neighborhood. To the left of the English, is the Arabic symbol for Allah.

Surprisingly, so far there has been very little controversy about these billboards, at least in the national news.

Answering Lonnie's Questions part 1

1.How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe if there is no God?


The universe is so vast that at this time we can't know how ordered or disordered it is. We often see order where there is none, we see shapes in clouds or faces in everyday items. There is even a Facebook page called Everyday Objects with Faces. By identifying patterns we can infer information about our surroundings which help us survive. It doesn't mean that there is order in everything we think there is. Even identifying that there is order, does not require that it be caused. If there is a cause, jumping to the conclusion that a supernatural being is that cause, isn't necessary. Finally, even if there were a supernatural being that created the massive universe that we observe, the odds that it would be the christian god is just as unlikely. 


2.How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, 
and people?

Some bible stories are based on recounts of things that happened in actual cities, so it isn't surprising that there is archaeological evidence of those cities. Other stories were modifications of mythologies that had been around for hundreds or thousands of years. While there is evidence supporting that the locations existed, there is no evidence for the supernatural claims. The Missouri river flooded last year. There is plenty of physical evidence to support that statement. If I said that leprechauns caused the flooding, the fact that there is physical evidence for the flood does not prove there are leprechauns.

3.Since absolutely no Bible prophecy has ever failed (and there are hundreds), how can 

one realistically remain unconvinced that the Bible is of divine origin?

Well there are a number of prophecies that haven't come true.  If I claim enough things eventually some of them will come true, and if they haven't I just have to say, "it hasn't come true YET". 

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. --

 Well almost 2000 years have passed and that generation is long gone. So the statement that "no prophecy has ever failed" is false, that along with an abundance of other conflicting evidence suggests that it is not of divine origin.

Lonnie's Questions

When I checked the Facebook wall today I was surprised to see posted on the wall was a comment from someone who was not a member of M.E.A.N.  It was a series of questions from Lonnie Faubion http://www.facebook.com/lfaubion  Now, after visiting your wall Lonnie, I find it very unlikely that any of my answers will sway you in any way or seem satisfactory, however I hope that I am wrong. In the very least I hope you will understand where we come from and respect our position even if you don't agree with us. Also quick disclaimer, while the majority of atheists will likely agree with most of my answers, these are MY opinion (aside from the facts that I source) and not believing in a god is the only thing I can guarantee we all agree on.  

1. How do you explain the high degree of design and order in the universe if there is no God?
2. How do you account for the vast archaeological documentation of Biblical stories, places, and people?
3. Since absolutely no Bible prophecy has ever failed (and there are hundreds), how can one realistically remain      unconvinced that the Bible is of divine origin?
4. How do you explain David's graphic portrayal of Jesus' death by crucifixion (Psalm 22) 1000 years before Christ lived?
5. How do you explain that the prophet Daniel prophesied the exact YEAR when the Christ would be presented as Messiah and also prophesied that the temple would be destroyed afterwards over 500 years in advance (Daniel 9:24-27)?
6. How could any mere human pinpoint the precise birth town of the Messiah seven full centuries before the fact, as did the prophet Micah?
7. How do you account for the odds (1 in 10 to the 157th power) that even just 48 (of 300) Old Testament prophecies were fulfilled in Jesus Christ?
8. How was it possible for the Old Testament prophet Isaiah to have predicted the virgin birth of Jesus (Isaiah 7:14) 700 years before it occurred?
9. How can anyone doubt the reliability of Scripture considering the number and the proximity to the originals of its many copied manuscripts?
10. In what sense was Jesus a "good man" if He was lying in His claim to be God?
11. If the Bible is not true, why is it so universally regarded as "the Good Book"?
12. Did you know that the Bible has been the number one bestseller almost every single year since the 1436 invention of the Gutenberg printing press?
13. If God does not exist, then from where comes humanity's universal moral sense?
14. If man is nothing but the random arrangement of molecules, what motivates you to care and to live honorably in the world?
15. Can you explain how personality could have ever evolved from the impersonal, or how order could have ever resulted from chaos?
16. If Jesus' resurrection was faked, why would twelve intelligent men (Jesus' disciples) have been willing to face death for what they knew to be a lie?
17. How do you explain the fact that a single, relatively uneducated and virtually untraveled man, dead at age 33, radically changed lives and society to this day?
18. Why have so many of history's greatest thinkers been believers?
19. Have you ever wondered why thousands of intelligent scientists, living and dead, have been men and women of great faith?
20. If time never had a beginning, but rather goes backwards infinitely or has gone through an infinite number of cycles, then how is it possible that we are here today?
21. How can something as small as a brain understand extremely complicated aspects of the universe, even though it is (supposedly) just a bunch of chemical reactions and electrical signals? But at the same time, this brain can’t create another brain like itself, so how can nature, that has no brain, create a brain?
22. Everyone knows Mount Rushmore was the result of intelligent design. Do you think the human body is the result of intelligent design?
23. When you look at a lot of creatures such as zebras, turtles, butterflies, bees, lady bugs, leopards, etc., you will notice amazing color patterns designed into them. Who came up with those? Does nature have a “taste” in colors, and does it know which colors go together nicely?
24. How do you account for the origin of life considering the irreducible complexity of its essential components?
25. How can the Second Law of Thermodynamics be reconciled with progressive, naturalistic evolutionary theory?
26. How do you reconcile the existence of human intelligence with naturalism and the Law of Entropy?
27. How come there are some things on our planet seem that they are especially designed for us? For example, the 2 most comfortable colors are blue and green , which happen to be the color of the sky and most of the nature around us. Who chose those colors to be there , before earth even existed?
28. Why does the Bible alone, of all of the world's holy books, contain such detailed prophecies of future events?
29. Is it absolutely true that "truth is not absolute" or only relatively true that "all things are relative?"
30. Is it possible that your unbelief in God is actually an unwillingness to submit to Him?
31. Does your present worldview provide you with an adequate sense of meaning and purpose?
32. How do you explain the radically changed lives of so many Christian believers down through history?
33. Are you aware that every alleged Bible contradiction has been answered in an intelligible and credible manner?
34. What do you say about the hundreds of scholarly books that carefully document the veracity and reliability of the Bible?
35. Why and how has the Bible survived and even flourished in spite of centuries of worldwide attempts to destroy and ban its message?
36. Have you ever considered the fact that Christianity is the only religion whose leader is said to have risen from the dead?
37. How do you explain the empty tomb of Jesus in light of all the evidence that has now proven essentially irrefutable for twenty centuries?
38. If Jesus did not actually die and rise from the dead, how could He (in His condition) have circumvented all of the security measures in place at His tomb?
39. If the authorities stole Jesus' body, why? Why would they have perpetrated the very scenario that they most wanted to prevent?
40. If Jesus merely resuscitated in the tomb, how did He deal with the Roman guard posted just outside its entrance?
41. How can one realistically discount the testimony of over 500 witnesses to a living Jesus following His crucifixion (see 1 Corinthians 15:6)?
42. If all of Jesus' claims to be God were the result of His own self-delusion, why didn't He show evidence of lunacy in any other areas of His life?
43. Is your unbelief in a perfect God possibly the result of a bad experience with an imperfect church or a misunderstanding of the facts, and therefore an unfair rejection of God Himself?
44. How did 35-40 men, spanning 1500 years and living on three separate continents, ever manage to author one unified message, i.e. the Bible?
45. Because life origins are not observable, verifiable, or falsifiable, how does the theory of "evolution" amount to anything more than just another faith system?
46. What do you make of all the anthropological studies indicating that even the most remote tribes show some sort of theological awareness?
47. If every effect has a cause, then what or who caused the universe?
48. How do you explain the thousands of people who have experienced heaven or hell and have come back to tell us about it?
49. How do you explain the countless people who have received miracles from God?

Placeb-O no he didn't!

I saw this clip on The Friendly Atheist  and had to share it. This is from a show called "Shark Tank" where business people come to the show looking for investors to start or expand their business.
Well, Mark Cuban wasn't going to conned by the psuedo science that Ryan Naylor was bringing. He was quick to call him out and make sure the rest knew how he felt. Sorry, having trouble embedding the video because it's from Hulu, but this link will show just the section that he is on.

http://www.hulu.com/watch/332432/shark-tank-week-6?c=1442:1856

They must be counting on the fact that most people haven't seen this clip however, because their website boasts "As seen on Shark Tank". They even offer a buy 2 get 2 by using Shark Tank as a promo code.

I'm always surprised how much influence that "balance test" has on people. Whether they are selling an ion watch or necklace, magnetic bracelet, shoe inserts or half a dozen other items it seems that they always use the "balance test" to show effective their modern snake oil is.

Personally I recommend the Placebo band(infused with the maximum amount of placebo allowed by law lol)  I have purchased a couple and they might be here by May 6 if anyone is interested. I bought a couple extra, they were $5 and I thought they might be a good conversation starter for those of you have friends/family that buy into this. You can have them try yours and once they see how great it is you can show them the "Power of Placebo"

Ash Whatagain?

Having grown up in this area and in a catholic family I never gave much thought to ash Wednesday. When I returned to the area, my wife, whose hometown only had 1 catholic church, questioned me about the practice. Now, of course I knew it was the beginning of Lent , aperiod of time in which I would give up something I liked. That is, until I forgot I was supposed to be giving it up and ate it anyway. (for me it was usually a food, often candy) But what did this have to do with rubbing burnt palm ashes on my head? Having never given it much thought, this was a question I could not answer. Like most christian traditions there is actually more than one answer. I'll give you the christian and then the pagan version.

In the early Church, Ash Wednesday was the day on which those who had sinned, and who wished to be readmitted to the Church, would begin their public penance. As the practice of Ash Wednesday the first datable year was 960. Early on men and priests would have ashes sprinkled over their heads and women would have the cross made on their forehead. In the 12th century the practice of using the prior years burnt palms became a rule. What started as a way to mark those who were paying their pennance to re-enter the church, became a reminder of ones sins at the beginning of Lent.

In Nordic pagan religions they believed that placing ashes on their forehead would provide protection by Odin. This practice was done on Odin's day or what we now call Wednesday. This practice was spread into Europe during viking age of about 790-1066. It therefore comes as no surprise that this practice doesn't show up in church records until 960.

As you pass people today and see that familiar black smudge on their forehead, maybe just maybe they aren't celebrating Lent but hoping that Odin is looking out for them. As for me I think I will just find a marker and put a red "A" on my forehead. Maybe I can drum up some conversation and find a new member today.



http://www.americancatholic.org/newsletters/cu/ac0204.asp - Catholic reference for ash wednesday

http://www.examiner.com/bible-prophecy-in-national/the-pagan-origin-of-ash-wednesday - Pagan reference material

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking - Viking reference 1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viking_Age - Viking reference 2